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 Post subject: The Tri States Manifesto - America Reborn
 Post Posted: March 3rd, 2007, 10:23 am 
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For the first time since the inception of his fictional Tri-States network 15 years ago, bestselling author William W. Johnstone delivers a complete guide to the first 24 books in his "Ashes" series. Here is Ben Raines on the IRA, the IRS, racism, the justice system, welfare, the military, politicians, prison reform, capital punishment, and the government. This definitive guide also offers a detailed synopsis of every novel, maps of each journey, and more.


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 Post Posted: May 20th, 2007, 5:20 pm 
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As of today, May 20th 2007 no one has an opinion on this subject? Does anyone out there have any ideas on how the Tri-state philosophy or TSP from this point out would really work? Can an individual live a Tri-state life in today's society without going to jail or compromising youe beliefs becuase you don't want friends, family, neighbors to think your some nut job survivalist? Let's get some idea's going here... 62 people... 62 people with no individual opinions or thoughts?

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 Post Posted: May 21st, 2007, 6:46 pm 
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I'll have to pick this piece of literature up and review it. If you want my opinion based off what I remember reading about from the series in general, I can try and do that.


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 Post subject: Heres my two cents.
 Post Posted: May 23rd, 2007, 6:23 am 
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Heres my opinion for what it's worth. To make this form of goverment work you will need these things. People who are willing to accept personal responsibility for their mistakes and faults. No excuses!! The prom queen wouldn't dance with me or my daddy beat me up so I can't be held responsible for my actions won't cut it in this society. A justice system that calls a spade a spade. Murder would be murder, not manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, 2nd ,3rd degree, just murder,period. A goverment who's purpose is to handle the affairs of state, foreign policy, protect individual rights of its citizens, defense of the state, control immigration, deliver mail. Goverment should not get involved in law abiding citizens personal choices. Like telling them they can't have guns, can't build a new house on their own property,must wear seatbelts in their personal vehicle, etc. Make sure the elected officials are part time officials. They meet at most once a year unless a state crisis happens (war, emergency appropiations, etc). This way they don't lose touch with the people they represent and keeps the cost of goverment low. They will have jobs at home because they are not paid unless in session. People that agree to move to the area that this goverment controls would have to agree to this way of doing things. You will work, no free rides if you are able bodied and can work, if not you will not be assisted in any way,period. Don't like it? Move!! Elderly and handicapped people will be assisted. Can this happen? I believe if all the people who would like to live under the tri-states type goverment would all move into one or two states they could take control of the state in the elections and start the process. The real question is: Would the rest of the country allow this to happen without interfering?


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 Post Posted: May 24th, 2007, 2:34 pm 
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:oops: Ogi, I hate to say it, but you are absolutely correct!!! The way my generation was raised (not baby boomers) or maybe just me, was take responsibility for your own actions. I don't see anybody taking responsibility for their own actions anymore.

There is always excuses as to why they can't do something, instead of when a job is handed to you, doing it and forgetting about it.

I would add to the philosophy of part-time politicians (UNPAID!!!!!!!) Instead of what we have now! From county level all the way up

In fact, a little known article about being President. Number one; must have at least $1mil in bank account.

number 2; is not elected by popular vote but rather by the electoral college, so it doesn't matter how many popular votes a candidate gets. picdaddy58


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 Post subject: Just one difference.
 Post Posted: May 27th, 2007, 12:20 am 
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picdaddy. While I think your points are valid I have just one point of disagreement. The reason I say the politicians should be paid while in session is this: The book of Ayn Rand who wrote "Atlas Shrugged" teaches this. No man is entitled to one second of my labor or my mind and time without an agreed upon trade or payment for my labor. I write this because the part time politician is not just working for himself, he is using his mind, time, and labor for the people. He should have payment for that, whatever is agreed to for that office. If he doesn't like the offer he can always reject it and not run for the office. His or her choice.. They shouldn't get rich. It is not going to be much. But he will be compensated for the use of his mind, time and labor. Picdaddy, I have learned something new today from you. I didn't know you had to have a million in the bank to run for President. Looks like I can't run. :cry: This is an interesting subject!! Come on people!! Let's hear more opinions on how the Tri-State type goverment would work. Let's get our ideas together and discuss the pros and cons!!


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 Post subject: politicians
 Post Posted: May 27th, 2007, 3:00 pm 
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Ogi!

IF and that is a mighty big IF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had a million dollars, I for sure would not use it for running for office (of any kind). My sorry butt lives from one paycheck to the next. :(

At one time, yes, I would have and gladly! But that was when I respected politicians and felt they were working for the greater good of the US. I have not seen one politician in the past 20 years that would qualify for that respect. It seems to me (and this is my personal observation) that they say one thing before they are elected and then turn around and do the complete opposite.

Indians say white man speak out of both sides of face or speak with forked tongue like snake and even tho I am white (heinz 57), I tend to agree with that philosophy! I think that's why I enjoy westerns so much, because they were a simpler time era.
There were still crooks, but morals were more clearly defined and yes, there were more people willing to stand up for their rights compared to now!

I agree with you that they should be paid while in session, but not the outlandish salaries they draw down now. I checked one congressman out to illustrate!

He was drawing a salary of $150k a year, in addition to that, he had an office fund of another $200k a year and a so-called slush fund of another $92k. Now the office fund and the slush fund could be used for whatever he wanted. Now, in my estimation, that means he has $442k available for whatever he wants each and every year. Does that sound right to you?
I'll get off my soapbox now!!!! lol
picdaddy58


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 Post Posted: September 22nd, 2007, 11:46 pm 
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I lost my respect for polititans a long time ago. When I was very young, I thought they were great, but then, when I got to be about oh... 10 or 11 I stopped and took a look around. A satyrical latin definition of politics. Poly=many Ticks=blood sucking pests. Very far from the actual latin definition, but these days, alot closer to the truth. A lot of people acuse me of being Anti-American. If your talking about the America we have these days... then I guess you might be right. However, the America that my grandparents remember from their youth, that was a respectable place. I just abhor the crap that has been done since. The most horrible legislation that has been passed in recent memory would have to be the "Patriot Act" because it completely, and totally nulifies the Bill of Rights, in both word and spirit.
Now, I have yet to aquire the novel in question, but I agree with the good General at least to a degree of about 90%. Where we generally have our run-ins is where some of his views come in conflict with my Libertarian side. Thats not to say that I agree with everything the Libertarians have to say either. However, Libertarianism is the closest thing to the rebel way of thinking that currently exists in the political arena of today. Thermopolis for instance, is most Definatly a Libertarian. And PLEASE, for the love of all that is holy, DO NOT confuse Libertarianism with Liberals.
I believe that something very close to the rules that the Tri-States are built upon could work today. Of course, the only true perfect society would be a Comunist one. However, the only way that Comunism works is on very small scales (such as a nuclear family) or with perfect human beings... and I only know of one instance of that in all of history.

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 Post subject: Re: The Tri States Manifesto - America Reborn
 Post Posted: July 4th, 2008, 10:44 pm 
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In order to move America closer to the society like the Tri-States as well as the SUSA, I think we need to make the following amendments to the U.S. Constitution.

1. The 17th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is hereby repealed and U.S. Senators shall be elected by the state legislatures.

2. All elected officials shall be limited to 12 years in office; Senators shall be limited to two terms, members of the House shall be limited to six-terms, and nobody shall serve more then three terms as President of the United States.

3. Freedom of speech and press shall not include pornography or media and art that glorify drug use, promiscuity, or other obscene and deviant behavior.

4. Freedom of religion shall not include devil worship, or other practices that threaten the health, loved ones, and private property of people.

5. Nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit Congress from instituting the military draft or a program of compulsory national or military service.

6. Nothing in this constitution shall prohibit the confinement of people who are mentally ill or convicts who pose a threat to the people at large after their prison terms expire.

7. Abortion and assisted suicide shall be prohibited throughout the United States.

8. Nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit the use of capital punishment to punish serial violent offenders or those who committed crimes of the most heinous nature.

9. English shall be the national and primary language of the United States and Congress shall legislate to this end.

10. Nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit prayer in public education institutions or the public funding of faith-based institutions.

11. With the exception of the ceremonial destruction of the American Flag, all destruction and desecration of the American Flag shall be prohibited.

12. Marriage shall be between one man and one woman in holy matrimony and Congress shall legislate to that end.

13. The President shall have the power of line-item veto.


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 Post subject: Re: The Tri States Manifesto - America Reborn
 Post Posted: July 5th, 2008, 2:20 am 
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I'd love to support all of that, BUT...

1. The 17th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is hereby repealed and U.S. Senators shall be elected by the state legislatures.


Why? Why take the power of the people from the people and give it to the government?

2. All elected officials shall be limited to 12 years in office; Senators shall be limited to two terms, members of the House shall be limited to six-terms, and nobody shall serve more then three terms as President of the United States.
I really like this idea, but what do you do when you have someone who works and works well for the people? Why limit that one person? We already have means to get them out at the end of thier term, if they dont work, then its up to the people to take them out not a law which says you can't continue to serve. I know that Ted Kennedy is a good example of why we need to have term limits, but he IS getting re-elected each term he comes up to. Education is the key on this one. We need to teach our kids that we CAN change and what change we need to make. Otherwise, we end up with the same on election day.

3. Freedom of speech and press shall not include pornography or media and art that glorify drug use, promiscuity, or other obscene and deviant behavior.
Define "deviant."
In the USA anything with skin is considered deviant where in the UK and the Orient, pubic hair is considered deviant. I know you have a great idea here, but you really need to define what deviant is, or consider that this may be a personal taste and not a topic which can really be defined easily.


4. Freedom of religion shall not include devil worship, or other practices that threaten the health, loved ones, and private property of people.

I can understand the protection of people's assets and loved ones, but you really can not define any one single religion as 'bad'.. not even satanism. Once we list even one religion as evil or bad, we make it the prime target for those who want to be rebellious to go and do. We also open the door to have others conndemn our religions as evil and bad...

5. Nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit Congress from instituting the military draft or a program of compulsory national or military service.

Do you know why the US military is voluntary? Its well documented that a conscripted army does not fight as hard as one which volunteers does. Also, when the Tri-States were formed, those who wanted to be there agreed to be conscripted, in essence, they volunteered for the oportunity to do it.

6. Nothing in this constitution shall prohibit the confinement of people who are mentally ill or convicts who pose a threat to the people at large after their prison terms expire.
Your going to have to exaplin this one to me...

7. Abortion and assisted suicide shall be prohibited throughout the United States.
These are issues between a person and their god. How do you really govern morality?
Assited suicide.. this is an interesting topic. I suffered from Cancer as a young man. I know without a doubt, that if I were on life support machines, that I would rather have the plug pulled than have to continue to be a burdon on my family and loved ones. Thats a form of assisted suicide and I would welcome it... I ask, what right you would have with telling someone that they have to suffer and allow their family to suffer because you feel that its wrong.
As for abortion, I disagree with it. I'm apposed to it, morally, but I will allow a person to make that decision for themselves up to a point. I don't agree with partial birht abortions, to me thats a matter of semantics and a life is born into this world... but thats an issue I worry about, I leave the rest into the hands of the God I believe in and let it rest there.

8. Nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit the use of capital punishment to punish serial violent offenders or those who committed crimes of the most heinous nature.
I agree.. but either define heinous or leave it alone.

9. English shall be the national and primary language of the United States and Congress shall legislate to this end.
What if 97% of all people want French?
You know we, as a country, almost spoke German as a national language instead of English and it actually took a German to vote that idea down.
This is something we can pass into law and there is no need to make a constitutional amendement to effect it.


10. Nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit prayer in public education institutions or the public funding of faith-based institutions.
Which prayer do you mandate?

11. With the exception of the ceremonial destruction of the American Flag, all destruction and desecration of the American Flag shall be prohibited.
I agree with this one, but you need to ensure you have a department to handle this or the loophole is already there of "Oh, I was doing it in accordance with the law, whats your problem?"

12. Marriage shall be between one man and one woman in holy matrimony and Congress shall legislate to that end.
Again, this is a morality issue.. how do you legislate it?

13. The President shall have the power of line-item veto.
I like this one and agree with it. I think its a great idea.

With everything you raise, you raise a great point and great ideas. I dont want you to think for a moment that I'm trying to shoot you down. Here, though, we are not in the Tri-States and you are going to have people who want to be a part of it, or think they do and they are going to raise these issues more and more indepth ones than I can even begin to think of.
I just want you to be ready to defend them and explain them. I also hope that you understand when I question them as I have above.

I look forward to this topic takin off some as well.

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 Post subject: Re: The Tri States Manifesto - America Reborn
 Post Posted: July 5th, 2008, 5:26 pm 
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Kolus wrote:
I'd love to support all of that, BUT...

1. The 17th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is hereby repealed and U.S. Senators shall be elected by the state legislatures.


Why? Why take the power of the people from the people and give it to the government?


Excellent question. Because the US Senators were to represent the state governments while the House was to represent the people. If state legislatures elect the Senators, then people have to focus on the elections for state lawmakers. This will return most governing to the state and local level.

2. All elected officials shall be limited to 12 years in office; Senators shall be limited to two terms, members of the House shall be limited to six-terms, and nobody shall serve more then three terms as President of the United States.
Quote:
I really like this idea, but what do you do when you have someone who works and works well for the people? Why limit that one person? We already have means to get them out at the end of thier term, if they dont work, then its up to the people to take them out not a law which says you can't continue to serve. I know that Ted Kennedy is a good example of why we need to have term limits, but he IS getting re-elected each term he comes up to. Education is the key on this one. We need to teach our kids that we CAN change and what change we need to make. Otherwise, we end up with the same on election day.


I wasn't too keen on term-limits myself. I used to be against the two-term limit on the POTUS. I believed the only term-limit should be the ballot. However, we have too many people in Congress who have been there for decades. Everyone thinks every member of Congress is bad except theirs. Maybe there are officials who are excellent lawmakers and leaders. Instead of keeping them there where they can get too comfortable, how about have them run for the next office up. Can you imagine the elections for Governor we could have if members of Congress started to vie for the job after their terms expire?

But education is the key. I was once in favor of having the POTUS elected by direct popular vote, in favor of national referundums to make and invalidate laws and treaties, amend the Constitution, and set aside SCOTUS decisions. Problem is when you have too much democracy, you have mob rule. Not to mention that sadly, most American citizens can't even pass the citizenship test. You want more uneducated and apathetic people voting? This is going to require a major cultural change before we can have more democracy instead of less.


Quote:
Define "deviant."
In the USA anything with skin is considered deviant where in the UK and the Orient, pubic hair is considered deviant. I know you have a great idea here, but you really need to define what deviant is, or consider that this may be a personal taste and not a topic which can really be defined easily.



[color=#40FFFF]I'm just taking a page out of the Tri-States Manifeso (TSM). The TSM permits movies from G to R-17 (which I guess would be NC-17) but not "X" or beyond. The TSM calls for banning films that glorify promiscuity, drug use, things of that nature. If we want to live in the society that the TSM envisions, this would be included.



Quote:
I can understand the protection of people's assets and loved ones, but you really can not define any one single religion as 'bad'.. not even satanism. Once we list even one religion as evil or bad, we make it the prime target for those who want to be rebellious to go and do. We also open the door to have others conndemn our religions as evil and bad...



Again, this is another page from the TSM. Ben Raines said in his interview with WWJ that anybody can worship God, but not the devil, or a bucket of dung that came from space, or any other belief system that causes its adherents to harm themselves or others. If we want to live in a society like the Tri-States or SUSA, then this would be included.


Quote:
Do you know why the US military is voluntary? Its well documented that a conscripted army does not fight as hard as one which volunteers does. Also, when the Tri-States were formed, those who wanted to be there agreed to be conscripted, in essence, they volunteered for the oportunity to do it.


Actually, the late Colonel David Hackworth, who was the most decorated soldier in Vietnam, commanded conscripts and volunteers in Vietnam and he said the conscripts fought just as hard as the volunteers. Moreover, the military in WW2 was mostly a conscript army while the army in Vietnam had more volunteers than draftees (though the volunteers enlisted to avoid the infantry). The draft didn't kill our effort in the Vietnam War, the Vietnam War killed the draft.

But back to the TSM, fact of the matter is that if you were a resident of the Tri-States or the SUSA, then you had to serve a stint of military service followed by being a member of the Home Guard. True, one would have to volunteer to be a resident of the SUSA in the first place. However, if we were to transform the USA into a society like the SUSA as opposed to having a couple of states secede from the union to form the SUSA, then we have to still implement the system of Universal Military Training that the TSM espouses. [/color]


Quote:
Your going to have to exaplin this one to me...


Here is the thing, the people of the SUSA and Tri-States are made up of people of a particular mindset. Every legal resident of the SUSA appears to be stable. I have been a police officer with a large urban police force for four years now and I ran into alot of people whose elevator didn't run all the way to the top. It would be hard to imagine for the SUSA to function as outlined if you have alot of broken families, alot of people who call the police because of "baby's mama drama" or can't hold a job because of mental issues.

7. Abortion and assisted suicide shall be prohibited throughout the United States.
Quote:
These are issues between a person and their god. How do you really govern morality?
Assited suicide.. this is an interesting topic. I suffered from Cancer as a young man. I know without a doubt, that if I were on life support machines, that I would rather have the plug pulled than have to continue to be a burdon on my family and loved ones. Thats a form of assisted suicide and I would welcome it... I ask, what right you would have with telling someone that they have to suffer and allow their family to suffer because you feel that its wrong.
As for abortion, I disagree with it. I'm apposed to it, morally, but I will allow a person to make that decision for themselves up to a point. I don't agree with partial birht abortions, to me thats a matter of semantics and a life is born into this world... but thats an issue I worry about, I leave the rest into the hands of the God I believe in and let it rest there.


I admit, the TSM does permit both abortion and assisted suicide. However, the TSM also strongly champions the sanctity of life. How can we champion the sanctity of life if we burn the candle at both ends. The TSM also admits these are two issues that will be heated in the Tri-States and the SUSA.

8. Nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit the use of capital punishment to punish serial violent offenders or those who committed crimes of the most heinous nature.
Quote:
I agree.. but either define heinous or leave it alone.


Recently the SCOTUS said subjecting child rapists to capital punishment was a violation of the 8th amendment and was hence unconstitutional. In the tri-state, if you commited murder, you were executed, plain and simple. In the TS and SUSA, if you were convicted of child rape, you would be shot or hanged. If we are to move to a society like the TS or SUSA, then we would have to amend the Constitution that would allow the use of capital punishment for people convicted of several violent felonies, child rapists, drug dealers and others who shouldn't be allowed another breath.

9. English shall be the national and primary language of the United States and Congress shall legislate to this end.

Quote:
What if 97% of all people want French?
You know we, as a country, almost spoke German as a national language instead of English and it actually took a German to vote that idea down.
This is something we can pass into law and there is no need to make a constitutional amendement to effect it.


You might have won me over on this one. But we do need a national and primary language.


Quote:
10. Nothing in this Constitution shall prohibit prayer in public education institutions or the public funding of faith-based institutions.
Which prayer do you mandate?


I don't mandate a specific prayer. Allow me to rephrase this amendment. Nothing in this constitution shall prohibit the free exercise of faith in public schools, voluntary faith-based education in public schools or the public funding of faith-based institutions.

Quote:
11. With the exception of the ceremonial destruction of the American Flag, all destruction and desecration of the American Flag shall be prohibited.
I agree with this one, but you need to ensure you have a department to handle this or the loophole is already there of "Oh, I was doing it in accordance with the law, whats your problem?"


This is going to be a thorny execution of this law. On one hand, if we say all flag burning is unconstitutional and illegal, that would include the ceremonial destruction of the flag. OTOH, if we do nothing, then people can burn or desecrate the flag anyway they wish. We will have to set up a special agency in the DHS or DOJ to handle this matter.

Quote:
12. Marriage shall be between one man and one woman in holy matrimony and Congress shall legislate to that end.
Again, this is a morality issue.. how do you legislate it?


The TS and SUSA are "don't ask, don't tell" societies where gays are discreet about their behavior. There are no gay nightclubs in the SUSA. I can't imagine the SUSA allowing for gay marriage. If we are to move the USA to a society like the TS or SUSA, then we will have to deal with this issue.

13. The President shall have the power of line-item veto.
I like this one and agree with it. I think its a great idea.

Quote:
With everything you raise, you raise a great point and great ideas. I dont want you to think for a moment that I'm trying to shoot you down. Here, though, we are not in the Tri-States and you are going to have people who want to be a part of it, or think they do and they are going to raise these issues more and more indepth ones than I can even begin to think of.
I just want you to be ready to defend them and explain them. I also hope that you understand when I question them as I have above.I look forward to this topic takin off some as well.


I concur with your last statement. I too just wanted to get the ball rolling on how and if we can transform the USA into the society like the TS or SUSA without having multiple states secede from the union or a apocalyptic scenario to do it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Tri States Manifesto - America Reborn
 Post Posted: November 19th, 2008, 7:13 am 
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Wonderfully put guys...and gals....the thought of living in a society such as TS or SUSA would be a wonderful thing...but not many people could do it because of thier "want something for nothing" mentality


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